Q&A...

OW: What difficulties were encountered on your latest project?

RM: The first problem was getting the logistics to get there. On top of that, there were the difficulties inside of Afghanistan. Right at the time [2000] that we were good to go was when Masood lost Taloqan. And at that point we weren't hearing anything from [the United Front] - understandably, because it was a very difficult time for Masood. At first we thought we'd have to wait for spring, but then we got the call.

Then getting people into the north is not easy because there are no direct flights to there. And certainly you can't fly into Kabul and say I want to make an appointment with Ahmad Shah Masood. In the old days, we use to go to Pakistan and schlep over the mountains - that's the way I always went. But now, because of geopolitical considerations, that was not an option, so the way to go was to go through Tajikistan.

Then there was the crew. We had the protagonists of the film, Reza and Sebastian, and then there was the cameraman, the sound person and the field producer.

We were also very lucky to get one of the best combat cameramen in the world - an Afghan cameraman by the name of Yusof. He played an important part on the team.

OW: Any surprises?

RM: They were awestruck by the total experience. They were awed by the landscape - knowing that they were walking the places where Alexander the Great had trod. They were also awestruck by the people - they fell in love with the Afghan people, unquestionably. That was no surprise to me because that happened to me a long, long time ago.

OW: How long did the whole project take?

RM: The field team was gone for about a month - from the time they left Munich [Germany]. They were in Tajikistan for nearly a week because of weather problems. And they finally got in and spent time with Masood, and then they traveled to parts of the north. They were involved in an incident where they came under heavy shelling. And that was a real test of their will. Sebastian said what we went through is nothing compared to what [the fighters] go through on a regular basis.

OW: What should viewers expect to see? There seems to be so much material compressed into the half-hour.

RM: The only regret I have is that this is not a two hour film. This first film [Explorer on CNBC] is a half-hour. We are also making a one hour version that will be shown on the National Geographic channel in the US and around the world.

In those 16 years that I've been covering Afghanistan, I've seen a lot of films. Nothing I've ever seen before comes close to this film because of the content of the film. And I say that with humility. There are things in it that I've never seen recorded on film before.

One is a funeral of young man killed in the fighting. With the family's blessing, the film follows the mourning, the preparation of the body, and the burial ceremony. It is hard to say that it's beautiful, but it is a powerfully moving moment in the film that captures a segment of death, which is a part of life, and does it with respect and dignity.

Secondly, there is also a wedding scene that is absolutely marvelous. It is recorded on film in a way that I've never seen coming out of Afghanistan. The whole idea here is that yes it was important to go to see Ahmad Shah Masood, and he is front and center in the film, but one of our goals in all films in Explorer is not only to capture the so-called stars or the people with big names but also to capture the spirit and the soul of the people of the countries we go to. And those two things I just described to you are a classic example of that goal being met - so that the Afghan people, themselves, are three dimensional. I have always wanted to see books and films where the Afghan people, themselves, came alive and their presence was felt. It has been very rarely achieved, if ever, in recent years. Alhumdulillah, we have achieved it in this film.

OW: Would you make the same type of film about the Taliban?

RM: Sure. The only problem is that we need to film people for a film. We'd happily make the same film about the Taliban if they allowed TV cameras.

This does not attempt to be a political film. It's meant to be a human film that captures the Afghan people and one of their leaders. As National Geographic, we do not get into who supports who.

OW: You are an award winning journalist in the West, and you are loved and liked a lot by Afghans. As the executive producer and guiding force behind the project, tell us about your own experiences in Afghanistan.

RM: Thank you for the kind words.

I first went to Afghanistan, to the [Afghanistan-Pakistan] border in 1985. I was doing a story about president Zia's regime when some people took me to meet some Afghans. The first ones I met were members of the Gailani group. And then I met others from different segments of society.

When I came back, I was determined to go back. I had to go back and I had to go into Afghanistan to meet these people who at this point were holding their own against one of the world's superpowers. I had to see this up-close and personal.

The first person I went to see was Ahmad Shah Masood. I was looking for somebody who stood out as a leader in the mujahideen.

OW: [A leader] on the battlefield?

RM: Yes, on the field. I've met people who've fought the battle from Virginia or Peshawar or Islamabad, but I wanted to go inside and meet the people who were doing it on the ground.

So I went in - that was a trip from hell. I got very sick. I got caught up in combat. For a while, I was captured and held by Hezb-e Islami people. I lost 55 pounds in weight. What was supposed to be a six week trip into Afghanistan turned into three and a half months. In those days we didn't have satellite phones or anything so my family didn't know if I was dead or alive. But, it was a magnificent experience.

My traveling companion on the trip was an Italian journalist. We got separated by about 20 minutes on the path. He was captured by the communists and taken to Pul-e Charkhi prison for nearly a year. But even he said afterwards that it was worth it. Once you've been bitten by the Afghan bug you keep going back. If I add up all my time in Afghanistan, I've spent at least two or three years over the past 16 years.

I have been consistently inspired by the Afghan people. I can never say enough words of praise about the Afghan people's spirit and soul and what they have stood up against and what they have endured. When you look at the reality of the numbers of people killed, maimed or wounded, no other people have had to go through this type of thing in recent memory. It's horrendous, but they continue to face it with spirit, good humor and courage. How can you not be in love with people like that?

OW: What has garnered the deep respect that others have for you is that you have put yourself in danger, not once but many, many times in your numerous adventures into Afghanistan. This is something that is extremely rare among today's Western journalists, especially those who "cover" Afghanistan. Are there one or two highlights that you'd like to mention?

RM: There is one particular night I remember, lying in a sleeping bag somewhere in Laghman province, the horses were making their noises, there were people sleeping around me, the fire was going out, and I remember staring up at the sky. Looking up at that Afghan sky, which you won't see anywhere else in the world, I said this is happiness, this is pure happiness.

So many of my other recollections are centered around the people. My wonderful, wonderful horseman that I had on that first trip, Rahman Beg, became a very important part of my life. He's from a little village up in the extreme far north of the Panjsher called Gishta. I wouldn't be alive today if it weren't for Rahman Beg; he saved my life on three occasions on that first trip. I love him very deeply.

In 1985, the Soviets bombed a village in Panjsher where he was. His father, his two uncles, and his nine brothers were all killed. He was shot up very, very badly. He spent over a year in the hospital in Pakistan before he came back. His sister, who had also been wounded, developed tuberculosis. Her spine was growing at a right angle. The doctors said that by the time she would reach her teens she would smother to death. And there were no doctors or hospitals in the region that could do anything about it. I was lucky enough to get her to the US; Rahman Beg came with her. She had three operations, which I was able to arrange for her. And then she went back to Afghanistan with Rahman Beg. The last I heard they were living in the Panjsher. Also, unfortunately, when he was walking through a park in Kabul a few years [later] at a place where there had previously been fighting, he stepped on a landmine and lost one of his legs. Rahman Beg sort of personifies the Afghan people in many ways. The way he keeps his spirit and somehow keeps his sanity in the middle of all these things that he's been through. The dreadful troubles they are facing.

Then there are moments of walking through the mountains and talking about all sorts of things. I would be telling Rahman Beg about America and he would tell me about his childhood. These are memories from Afghanistan that are truly precious.

The Afghan Connection:

Omaid Interviews

Richard Mackenzie

Published Omaid Magazine Issue #462 on     26 February 2001. The Taliban still ruled Afghanistan at the time. Text follows...

Richard Mackenzie ... is a renowned journalist who has covered Afghanistan since the mid-1980s. His many expeditions to Afghanistan to cover the war-ravaged country has earned him both praise and admiration from his readers, especially Afghans, and also great respect from his colleagues and everyone who follows Afghanistan.

Mackenzie (left) during jihad in 1989